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	<title>Comments on: How to explain &#8216;desire&#8217;?</title>
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	<description>thinking + motherhood = feminist</description>
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		<title>By: HATE MUM &#171; blue milk</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-18705</link>
		<dc:creator>HATE MUM &#171; blue milk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-18705</guid>
		<description>[...] it says  pretty much everything there is to say about the animosity running hot right now towards mothers, well the middle-class ones anyway*. They&#8217;re usually unfairly stereotyped, but sometimes [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it says  pretty much everything there is to say about the animosity running hot right now towards mothers, well the middle-class ones anyway*. They&#8217;re usually unfairly stereotyped, but sometimes [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ariane</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-15912</link>
		<dc:creator>Ariane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-15912</guid>
		<description>Kate - I think you are right. I also think our entire economy needs to change from an environmental point of view. 

For a long time I have wondered why economists study economics like a found thing, instead of researching the construction of a new one that works better. One that values humanity, life and all the systems that support them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate &#8211; I think you are right. I also think our entire economy needs to change from an environmental point of view. </p>
<p>For a long time I have wondered why economists study economics like a found thing, instead of researching the construction of a new one that works better. One that values humanity, life and all the systems that support them.</p>
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		<title>By: kate</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-15907</link>
		<dc:creator>kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-15907</guid>
		<description>aebhel - I wonder if it&#039;s the view of women &amp; reproduction that needs to change or our entire economy. The economic marginalisation of mothers (and non-mothers, because they might possibly become mothers later, so there&#039;s no point promoting them now) happens because all of our paid work culture is set up to fit men with wives. It doesn&#039;t work out well for any of us, including the men with wives who never see their kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aebhel &#8211; I wonder if it&#8217;s the view of women &amp; reproduction that needs to change or our entire economy. The economic marginalisation of mothers (and non-mothers, because they might possibly become mothers later, so there&#8217;s no point promoting them now) happens because all of our paid work culture is set up to fit men with wives. It doesn&#8217;t work out well for any of us, including the men with wives who never see their kids.</p>
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		<title>By: aebhel</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-15900</link>
		<dc:creator>aebhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-15900</guid>
		<description>Hi, you don&#039;t know me but I&#039;ve been reading your blog for a while now, and I agree with you about this.

For me, the &#039;motherhood&#039; problem is also linked to classism. Strictly speaking, we can&#039;t literally have &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; women stop having kids, or the human race will cease to exist. I don&#039;t see anyone seriously advocating that, but when people start going on about how having children is disempowering, how motherhood is a tool of the patriarchy, how truly feminist women should eschew motherhood in favor of career/education/what-have-you... well, &lt;i&gt;someone&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; still going to have to reproduce, and when you set up this false dichotomy of motherhood versus empowerment, you basically ensure that the women who do choose to have children will be without support. The answer to the social and economic strains that mothers face is not to marginalize motherhood, but to reform the way society views women and reproduction.

(sorry for the soapbox-standing, this is a sensitive subject for me)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, you don&#8217;t know me but I&#8217;ve been reading your blog for a while now, and I agree with you about this.</p>
<p>For me, the &#8216;motherhood&#8217; problem is also linked to classism. Strictly speaking, we can&#8217;t literally have <i>all</i> women stop having kids, or the human race will cease to exist. I don&#8217;t see anyone seriously advocating that, but when people start going on about how having children is disempowering, how motherhood is a tool of the patriarchy, how truly feminist women should eschew motherhood in favor of career/education/what-have-you&#8230; well, <i>someone&#8217;s</i> still going to have to reproduce, and when you set up this false dichotomy of motherhood versus empowerment, you basically ensure that the women who do choose to have children will be without support. The answer to the social and economic strains that mothers face is not to marginalize motherhood, but to reform the way society views women and reproduction.</p>
<p>(sorry for the soapbox-standing, this is a sensitive subject for me)</p>
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		<title>By: kate</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-15883</link>
		<dc:creator>kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-15883</guid>
		<description>I do my fair share of the bitching. Bitching to other adults is what we do so that we don&#039;t screech directly at the kids to STFU. We all need to release a little tension now and then. Or a lot of tension. It&#039;s a 24 hour a day gig, the tension goes with the territory when you don&#039;t get a lunch break.

But the good bits, the bits that make one go back for a second child even though you&#039;ve bitched about the first one, and it&#039;s the hardest thing you&#039;ve ever done and you can see quite clearly how it&#039;s the cause of your financial dependence on a bloke, the good bits are so good. In amongst the &quot;will I ever go to the toilet alone ever again&quot; and the &quot;will the constant chatter ever end&quot; and &quot;I can&#039;t believe I can be this tired without dying&quot; there&#039;s &quot;where the hell did s/he learn that?&quot; and &quot;oh my god that&#039;s the cutest thing ever&quot; and &quot;I taught him/her that&quot; and the whole universe of possibilities for a kid&#039;s future and you get to be in the front row watching how they turn out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do my fair share of the bitching. Bitching to other adults is what we do so that we don&#8217;t screech directly at the kids to STFU. We all need to release a little tension now and then. Or a lot of tension. It&#8217;s a 24 hour a day gig, the tension goes with the territory when you don&#8217;t get a lunch break.</p>
<p>But the good bits, the bits that make one go back for a second child even though you&#8217;ve bitched about the first one, and it&#8217;s the hardest thing you&#8217;ve ever done and you can see quite clearly how it&#8217;s the cause of your financial dependence on a bloke, the good bits are so good. In amongst the &#8220;will I ever go to the toilet alone ever again&#8221; and the &#8220;will the constant chatter ever end&#8221; and &#8220;I can&#8217;t believe I can be this tired without dying&#8221; there&#8217;s &#8220;where the hell did s/he learn that?&#8221; and &#8220;oh my god that&#8217;s the cutest thing ever&#8221; and &#8220;I taught him/her that&#8221; and the whole universe of possibilities for a kid&#8217;s future and you get to be in the front row watching how they turn out.</p>
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		<title>By: mymilkspilt</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-15882</link>
		<dc:creator>mymilkspilt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-15882</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been thinking some more about this and I keep coming back to one of my most strongly imprinted, visceral, triumphant memories: the feeling of my daughter coming out of my vagina. I keep thinking about how deeply symbolic that is for me. So when I read Penni&#039;s comment I shouted A-HA! because she is so right. It is true that having a baby within the patriarchy has put some things into sharp relief: I am now economically dependent upon a man in a terribly obvious way, I am now judged by my marital status in a way I never was before, I am now being asked to justify the work that I do because it apparently has no monetary value. But I have never felt stronger in my womanhood, never felt more fiercely feminist, and never felt less concerned with what my body looks like as opposed to what it does. Could I have reached this empowerment without a child? Most likely. But I didn&#039;t. I have come here through motherhood and I embrace that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking some more about this and I keep coming back to one of my most strongly imprinted, visceral, triumphant memories: the feeling of my daughter coming out of my vagina. I keep thinking about how deeply symbolic that is for me. So when I read Penni&#8217;s comment I shouted A-HA! because she is so right. It is true that having a baby within the patriarchy has put some things into sharp relief: I am now economically dependent upon a man in a terribly obvious way, I am now judged by my marital status in a way I never was before, I am now being asked to justify the work that I do because it apparently has no monetary value. But I have never felt stronger in my womanhood, never felt more fiercely feminist, and never felt less concerned with what my body looks like as opposed to what it does. Could I have reached this empowerment without a child? Most likely. But I didn&#8217;t. I have come here through motherhood and I embrace that.</p>
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		<title>By: Hendo</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-15881</link>
		<dc:creator>Hendo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-15881</guid>
		<description>Bluemilk, you are on!!! It was so nice to get on the intarwebs here in Dili and find all these great posts. :) 

I&#039;m so glad you wrote about that post of Twisty&#039;s. I thought of you and wondered what you would say, when I read it yesterday. 

I&#039;ve wavered back and forth on wanting kids in the past, but never had to think about it in the context of mothering. Now I study this stuff in my degree, work in it, and think about it in relation to myself, I just can&#039;t agree with people saying &#039;having kids props up the patriarchy; do not have kids&#039;. You just can&#039;t do that. 

Ariane hit the change to wanting kids on the head for me: for me, on the &#039;pro&#039; side of having kids (adopted or naturally) would be, getting to teach someone about the world. And as part of that, getting to send forth my own little feminist fighter, male or female (even if they end up deciding to be different to me). It pisses me off so much that some people indoctrinate their kids to be nasty little bigots, or waste their time on religious education. That used to make me not want kids, but then I realised, Well hell! I can be the opposite. 

anyway, once again, great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bluemilk, you are on!!! It was so nice to get on the intarwebs here in Dili and find all these great posts. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m so glad you wrote about that post of Twisty&#8217;s. I thought of you and wondered what you would say, when I read it yesterday. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve wavered back and forth on wanting kids in the past, but never had to think about it in the context of mothering. Now I study this stuff in my degree, work in it, and think about it in relation to myself, I just can&#8217;t agree with people saying &#8216;having kids props up the patriarchy; do not have kids&#8217;. You just can&#8217;t do that. </p>
<p>Ariane hit the change to wanting kids on the head for me: for me, on the &#8216;pro&#8217; side of having kids (adopted or naturally) would be, getting to teach someone about the world. And as part of that, getting to send forth my own little feminist fighter, male or female (even if they end up deciding to be different to me). It pisses me off so much that some people indoctrinate their kids to be nasty little bigots, or waste their time on religious education. That used to make me not want kids, but then I realised, Well hell! I can be the opposite. </p>
<p>anyway, once again, great post.</p>
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		<title>By: Pen</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-15880</link>
		<dc:creator>Pen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-15880</guid>
		<description>Being a mother is indeed bloody hard work. Almost from conception, I would say. And that&#039;s without all the moral fingerpointing from random placed along the political spectrum. 

Penni, I loved what you said about having something coming out of your vagina. Brilliant. 

Being a mother has made be better at doing all kinds of things. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s made me miraculously a better person (in fact I&#039;m quite confident it has made me more doubtful, anxious and angry than ever). But it&#039;s made me realise it doesn&#039;t matter - I can do pretty much anything regardless. It&#039;s made me know my toughness. I think that&#039;s a pretty feminist outcome for me personally. On a broader political level, I get to contribute to a family raising a child while negotiating all the anti-woman, anti-family and anti-person crap that goes on. I often feel like we are a guerilla family, fighting against all kinds of things just by insisting on existing. And sometimes I don&#039;t. But I&#039;m sick of people feeling entitled to poke around in my ovaries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a mother is indeed bloody hard work. Almost from conception, I would say. And that&#8217;s without all the moral fingerpointing from random placed along the political spectrum. </p>
<p>Penni, I loved what you said about having something coming out of your vagina. Brilliant. </p>
<p>Being a mother has made be better at doing all kinds of things. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s made me miraculously a better person (in fact I&#8217;m quite confident it has made me more doubtful, anxious and angry than ever). But it&#8217;s made me realise it doesn&#8217;t matter &#8211; I can do pretty much anything regardless. It&#8217;s made me know my toughness. I think that&#8217;s a pretty feminist outcome for me personally. On a broader political level, I get to contribute to a family raising a child while negotiating all the anti-woman, anti-family and anti-person crap that goes on. I often feel like we are a guerilla family, fighting against all kinds of things just by insisting on existing. And sometimes I don&#8217;t. But I&#8217;m sick of people feeling entitled to poke around in my ovaries.</p>
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		<title>By: stef</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-15874</link>
		<dc:creator>stef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-15874</guid>
		<description>Speaking here as a pseudo-parent of 3 months (partner has a five year old) I thought have a youngster in my life would crystallize whether or not I had the desire to have kids but in reality it&#039;s muddied my thinking even more.

I really enjoy the time I spend with my partner&#039;s little girl, spending time seeing the world through non-cynical eyes, playing dollies, doing her hair, have her wake me up at 6.20 all bright-eyed and chirpy that another day has dawned.

But at the same time, being with her is such hard fucking work. Trying to get her to eat some damn food, having her ask 300 times if I am a boy or a girl over a 48 hour period and just generally having to be &#039;on&#039; all the time. To be honest I&#039;m actually quite relieved when she goes back to her mother&#039;s house and I can back to being me again.  But then I start missing her and the house seems oddly quiet without her around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking here as a pseudo-parent of 3 months (partner has a five year old) I thought have a youngster in my life would crystallize whether or not I had the desire to have kids but in reality it&#8217;s muddied my thinking even more.</p>
<p>I really enjoy the time I spend with my partner&#8217;s little girl, spending time seeing the world through non-cynical eyes, playing dollies, doing her hair, have her wake me up at 6.20 all bright-eyed and chirpy that another day has dawned.</p>
<p>But at the same time, being with her is such hard fucking work. Trying to get her to eat some damn food, having her ask 300 times if I am a boy or a girl over a 48 hour period and just generally having to be &#8216;on&#8217; all the time. To be honest I&#8217;m actually quite relieved when she goes back to her mother&#8217;s house and I can back to being me again.  But then I start missing her and the house seems oddly quiet without her around.</p>
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		<title>By: Penni</title>
		<link>http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/how-to-explain-desire/#comment-15872</link>
		<dc:creator>Penni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/?p=2399#comment-15872</guid>
		<description>Having kids gave me access to a universe of thought and feelings I would never have been able to swirl with a spoon if I hadn&#039;t had them. I&#039;m not saying you have to have kids to reach enlightenment (in fact, I feel more unenlightened than ever), but to understand the sum of my biology in a totally fulfilling and non sexual way, to have boobs that go way beyond being looked at or being sexed up, to have my vagina release something from within rather than be penetrated from without, to absorb and dissolve and challenge the boundaries of myself in an utterly exclusively female way...if that&#039;s not challenging the patriarchy as the centre of existence, then I don&#039;t know what is. 

The patriarchy pokes my motherhood. I spit in its eye. I&#039;m sorry but anyone saying &#039;don&#039;t have children because you are conducting the evil work of the patriarchy&#039; is doing the patriarchy&#039;s work, delineating childbirth and motherhood and babies and children (and the future) as something for &#039;the man&#039;. It is anti-choice, anti-woman and anti-feminism. That makes me boil. If this is feminism then I want no part of it. I opted for feminism because it was multifarious, because it bloomed possibility. If I wanted to exist enclosed in a linear, phallocentric dictatorship...and so forth...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having kids gave me access to a universe of thought and feelings I would never have been able to swirl with a spoon if I hadn&#8217;t had them. I&#8217;m not saying you have to have kids to reach enlightenment (in fact, I feel more unenlightened than ever), but to understand the sum of my biology in a totally fulfilling and non sexual way, to have boobs that go way beyond being looked at or being sexed up, to have my vagina release something from within rather than be penetrated from without, to absorb and dissolve and challenge the boundaries of myself in an utterly exclusively female way&#8230;if that&#8217;s not challenging the patriarchy as the centre of existence, then I don&#8217;t know what is. </p>
<p>The patriarchy pokes my motherhood. I spit in its eye. I&#8217;m sorry but anyone saying &#8216;don&#8217;t have children because you are conducting the evil work of the patriarchy&#8217; is doing the patriarchy&#8217;s work, delineating childbirth and motherhood and babies and children (and the future) as something for &#8216;the man&#8217;. It is anti-choice, anti-woman and anti-feminism. That makes me boil. If this is feminism then I want no part of it. I opted for feminism because it was multifarious, because it bloomed possibility. If I wanted to exist enclosed in a linear, phallocentric dictatorship&#8230;and so forth&#8230;</p>
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