I have always thought the way Bill and I keep our money separate (sharing the household bills between us pro-rata) was a sign of my feminist independence, but maybe it isn’t?
But in my mini-survey, 30 of the 41 women with joint accounts preferred keeping their (often lower) salaries in a personal account and paying a pro-rated amount into the family pool in order to enjoy some unscrutinized spending.
“I know that a lot of my spending is frivolous, and I couldn’t defend it if you shoved a spreadsheet in my face,” said one American friend who has been resisting her fiancé’s efforts to open a joint account. But “the thought of having another person in control of — and able to make comments about — my spending habits makes me antsy.”
Indeed, several friends have found creative ways to maintain the independence they ostensibly sacrificed in the name of equality…
.. But if the women spend the money, the guys control it.
More scary ideas about how men and women negotiate money in their relationships from here at The New York Times.
Perhaps because I’m from a slightly younger generation than the article writer (turning 30 next month), but I’ve always thought having separate accounts and pro-rating bills was an awful lot of divisiveness. Not to mention thought and effort. (It certainly works for some, I’ve just never personally felt right about it.) My husband and I each deposit our paychecks into a joint account. We use EEBA
https://www.eebacanhelp.com/login.php?r=%2Findex.php
to track our personal spending in envelopes. And yes, I do spend much more than my husband (though still relatively little compared to most people. I married a veritable vault.) We get “allowances” of equal amounts. I’m continually emptying out my envelope or going slightly negative, he is steadily accumulating money. But, in the main, we think of our money as our money. Even when he was unemployed, I never thought of it as “my” money. We both contribute to the household, we both have a say.
I also thought it was interesting that she says the men control the money. In my experience, it’s the women who do. I do for my husband and I, my mother does, my MIL does, etc, etc.
I do as I was told – by my Mum. She always hammered home to me that I must always have my own bank account, and always tell my husband that I earn less than I actually do.
I think that says it all.
We tried to have a shared account but we weren’t good at remembering to put money in it, so we returned to separate accounts and sharing the bills according to who has the money to pay this week. We change working hours and income regularly so who pays what has to change then too. We have a rough idea of what we should keep our spending to in various categories but we’re both forgiving of occasional excesses. I think in the end it doesn’t really matter how you arrange the bank accounts and who takes responsibility for keeping an eye on spending, but the attitude of each individual to the other’s spending. I trust my partner not to go out and buy a new camera/motorbike/camping gear without consulting me about where we’re at, and I don’t go buying shoes/clothes/fabric/yarn without checking in with him about the rent and utilities being covered.
If my partner lied to me about how much he earned I’d be furious, so there’s no way I’d do that. We’re both earning, we’re both spending a lot on immediate expenses and trying to save a bit towards shared goals.
(I didn’t read the article yet – but I will – so this is my off the cuff response)
My experience is very similar MrsDragon’s. All our money goes into one account (against our mortgage), but in reality I control the budget, as did my mother & MIL. We have set amounts of ‘pocket money’ which we used to be really good at sticking too, but these days when we run out we both just tend to draw out more if we ‘need’ it. Any big expenses we agree on together.
I know a lot of women like to keep their money separate, but I have never understood how that was a good decision from a feminist perspective, or at least, not once you have children. Unless of course you get paid by your partner for any loss you incur when you cut your work hours to manage child care (or quit your job), lose promotion opportunities because you are working part time or have to pick up your child before child care centes close, or have to stay home when your child’s sick, or just because you take some leave without pay when your child is a baby… It just doesn’t seem equitable to me.
And of course I realise that doesn’t happen to all mothers and it does happen to some fathers. But my personal experience is that while I had always earned more than my husband, hourly and annually, until we had kids and I am more highly educated than he is, I now earn less. We have both worked part time most of the time since our first child was born (10 years), though I took a year of maternity with each child (okay, 2 with the last one). But his full-time salary would now be around 20000pa more than mine. Maybe a little less than that, but not much. Again, I know that doesn’t *have* to be the case, but the fact is that in this country women still earn less than men for the same work.
Okay, I better go read the article now (while my husband does the dishes).
My mom controlled the bank accounts – that is, she did all the work, paid all the bills, did all the worrying – but my dad always felt free to randomly go spend a large amount of money without telling her. So it was less “control” than it looked like, without his cooperation.
We had always done his, mine, and ours until we had kids, and then it became a huge problem. But the all-joint thing would have been a problem from the start – it wasn’t that having kids made the problem, it just stopped my ability to paper over the problem by having money that was none of his business.
My Mum was in a similar situation with her first marriage (to my Dad) – he had (and has) a pathology around spending money, and had secret credit cards! No wonder that relationship didn’t last! But she still does all the money management in her second marriage, which has worked much better.
I personally think any relationship where there isn’t (warranted) trust around money and spending has some issues. That’s not to say everyone should have their money together, but if someone has to keep their true income level/savings a secret, or if they’re worried that their partner might take money out of the joint account for irresponsible spending without their agreement? I think that couple has bigger problems.
I also do agree that that money management is also work, and it seems to me if often falls to the women in a hetero relationship as part of the ‘domestic management’ that she more often does. I did that for a long time and got sick to death of it, so around the time our first child was born I put all the bill paying responsbility onto my husband. I still manage the actual bank accounts (he pays on credit card, which I pay off each month), but he’s more inolved and aware, and he’s the one who has to meet most of the deadlines!
Our money sharing problems aren’t trust-based, they’re based on different ideas about work, savings and charitable giving. Thinking about it more, I think the anxiety of having a baby would have made them blow up regardless.
Now we do mine/ours with no “his” because it was the simple act of taking/transferring money out of the account that made him freak out. Also after I went back to work I made him do all the grocery and clothing shopping for about 6 months to get a baseline of how much things actually cost, instead of silently thinking if he did the shopping it would only be $25/week because that’s how much groceries cost when he did the shopping as a student who ate mostly out of dumpsters.
It depends how much money a family has. We have no extra money, thus a joint account and approving all of our financial decisions together including keeping track of my choices and his choices is crucial to surviving. I have written about how financial co-dependence, while a pain in the ass and limiting in one sense, is freeing in another.
It would be different if we had play money left after trying to pay all the bills. But it wouldn’t reach that “should I have my own account to spend whatever without supervision?” point until we had agreed that our bills were paid, our retirement was funded, the kids college fund and schools bills were covered.
That said, I still get to buy the things I really want when I want them. Some I stop to discuss, some I just do. I didn’t marry someone who’d be an asshat about it. And when we do split play money, we split 50/50 not pro rata, which is nice for whoever doesn’t get equal wages!
I’m more in control of my finances than I ever have been, single or not.
I’ve been lurking around for a while, reading everything as fast as I can to catch up on things. Thank you so much for this blog. We’re not parents (yet) but I’m doing my homework before the time comes and so many of the parenting blogs out there are just blech- even if they are “alternative” they so infrequently take into account that hey, you’re still a person as well as a mom and have needs of your own outside of your childrens’.
At any rate apparently I’ve been reading some pretty innocuous blogs for a while now because yours is the first time I’ve felt challenged by something I’ve read in ages, and I realized how much I missed the feeling. Thinking! It does wonders for the soul.
The financial question was one in particular that got my brain going. There was some older post (not remembering which at the moment) about this as well, and I realized for the first time (possibly also because I just quit my job, for a variety of reasons but partly so I can work at home (second job) in preparation for the eventual children) that even though I earn a lot (A LOT) less than he does we split all our bills 50/50. And I manage the accounts! I had just always assumed, well, we’re equal in the relationship so we should pay equally, right? But I’m never, ever, going to make as much as he does, nor do I really want to, and that’s my choice, so he shouldn’t be penalized for my choice not to pursue a higher paying job… or at least that’s what I’ve been telling myself but now I’m really starting to question it… for the record, I quite possibly could make as much as him but it would require us moving elsewhere and me being very miserable.
Anyway, thanks so much for making me think!!
Gosh, this has prompted a pre-marital post of its own (my partner and I are getting married in September), so I won’t put down all my thoughts here — will save them for the blog. Here’s the shortish version:
My partner and I have been living together for four years, and been a couple for three. Since we started out as roommates, we split everything fifty-fifty as far as monthly bills were concerned, but kept finances separate. As soon as we got involved as a couple, we opened a joint checking account where we each deposited a monthly amount based on what each person was making/capable of contributing at the time. Since neither of us are big on keeping track of expenses, but feel very strongly about fairness, this seemed like the most efficient way to make things “fair” without tracking every penny spent. It’s worked out even better than I anticipated, really. As we move toward marriage, we’re talking about consolidating our financial lives even further.
But I do think that being a lesbian couple might make the social significance of interdependence a little less fraught. Neither of us are making a great deal of money, and while I currently command a slightly higher salary than my partner, we don’t have a huge income disparity. Both of us come from families where one partner was the primary wage-earner (her mother, my father) while the other parent was the primary domestic wrangler — so I think both of us feel comfortable with a certain amount of unevenness in wage-earning which is made up for in other non-monetary ways (cooking meals, running errands, etc.). Financial equality isn’t the only realm for calculating fairness in a relationship.
Would I feel touchier if my partner was a man? I don’t have a basis for comparison. I think it would depend on his attitude toward money, toward worth, toward spending. My partner and I seem to have stumbled into a good balance between shared resources and relative independence in purchasing. We trust one another to be responsible with the resources we have, so we’re not constantly scrutinizing one anothers’ choices in that regard. Thankfully, we have just enough income that such mutual policing isn’t necessary once the bills are paid.
“unevenness in wage-earning which is made up for in other non-monetary ways (cooking meals, running errands, etc.).”
Ouch! That’s a little regressive, don’t you think? If you both work equally hard and equally long (or not) hours, should you really take a personal hit because your partner’s job happens to be better recognised as “valuable”?
@kat … I think you misunderstand (or perhaps I articulated it poorly). My partner currently works part-time while I work full-time, in part because of the job market but also because of her health. Because she has the more flexible hourly schedule during the week, often tasks like picking up groceries on the way home or beginning dinner preparation fall to her (for now). It’s not about her “making up for” in a punitive way — it’s more about who’s available to do what when. When we’re at home together, we’re both pitching in on what needs to be done.
My overall point was that with two (or more) adults in a family, you spread both wage-earning and other responsibilities around according to who is available to do what, who has what skills, and what feels fair to all people concerned. Too often, mainstream media reduces equality (and power) in household relationships to income and ignores all of the other aspects of running a household to which everyone in a family contributes.
Interesting. I earn less than my fiancé, but I have lots more capital. We decided to pool our incomes, while keeping my inheritance and savings separate. The income is all our money. I still feel odd using it for my clothes or going out with friends without him but I’m getting used to it and I think it works well in our relationship. We are also saving together for our wedding and honeymoon, he’s taken responsibility for keeping track of our goals. By combining finances we’re learning to be more disciplined – being responsible to each other is really good for us. I can see why this might not work for everyone but, while I was nervous at the time, I definitely don’t regret this step. I think getting used to this now while I’m contributing funds will help me to be comfortable if we ever live off one income. Time will tell.
As far as feminism goes, I’m wary of a simple answer. These things depend on relationship dynamics, personal spending attitudes and financial circumstances. I can’t think of anything specific to say beyond that.
>As far as feminism goes, I’m wary of a simple answer. These things depend on relationship dynamics, personal spending attitudes and financial circumstances.>
I think that is such a good point – there is never going to be a one size fits all answer, because people are different, relationships are different. There’s some value in trying to figure out your ideal set up, but there’s not if you then fail to deal with the reality on the ground.
My first thought after reading that piece was “geez I’m cheap to maintain”. Maybe it is time to switch to craft beers. :-).
Financial independence was an important part of my mum’s feminism in the sixties and seventies. Which totally makes sense when measured against my dad’s darstedly (?) 18th century attitude to his partners money. mum was, reluctantly, well trained by her mum and aunts about domestic economy but got nothing about financial independence. I guess that was fairly common, mum claims she was the first single mum to get a home loan with her financial institution.
Dr HoneyAir and I have had joint accounts since we got serious about ten years ago, (that first carefree 8 years of going out and living together we kept things separate). Since I started at home with the kids (over five years ago now) Dr HoneyAir has done all the banking and guff while I shop for victuals etc. Teasing out the elements of politics, inclination and responses to family history/trauma is a complex exercise and we both allocate very different weights to those elements.
I think it really depends on the couple – how are their individual spending habits? What level of trust is there? Commitment?
I’m a feminist and my husband is a feminist. For the beginning or our relationships we shared expenses but had separate finances. We moved to a joint checking and joint savings when we got engaged. Our incomes have varied – I made almost twice as much as he did several years ago, and now he’s making more than that, and I don’t have any income for the time being (I’m in graduate school). Regardless of who is earning what, it was important to both of us to have one budget and to make financial decisions together. I love to spend money and he loves to save it, and it keeps me accountable to think about the funds as “our” funds. And now, while I’m not working and things are much tighter, we have a weekly budget that we created and maintain together, and one savings account we are slowly growing together. We have kept our retirement funds separate, but that’s it.
Was it a HUGE decision to join finances? Definitely. It takes a whole lot of trust in another person. We talked and talked and TALKED about it, made sure that neither of us had serious concerns or doubts about the joining of finances or our relationship before going ahead. To us, this is the kind of trust and commitment that defines our relationship. We want to be accountable to each other in everything, and we want to share everything. But that’s how we are, many couples are different.
I was a financial counselor for several years and saw many different scenarios for handling money, and it all really comes down to who is in the relationship, their financial styles, and what a couple feels comfortable working on together. Unfortunately I saw many scenarios in which one partner would accrue lots of debt (often without the other person knowing). Sometimes a couple would have issues because they couldn’t agree on what to prioritize, how to budget, or how much to save. I even saw a few situations where a client would confess that their partner didn’t contribute their portion (sometimes anything!) to help with basic living expenses.
I’ve counseled people to join their finances together, and I’ve counseled them to separate, separate, separate!
In the end, being a feminist means being proactive about how you handle your finances, either keeping them separate, or joining with a partner. Know why you are doing something, whether or not it goes against the grain.
We each have our own accounts, plus one shared, and money is automatically deducted from the personal accounts every so often and dumped into the general one. It works. We don’t dump the same amount into it – the difference between what he makes and what I make, right now, is pretty extreme (I make more) – but I’m okay with that. So is he, but it seems like ladies making less often pay 50/50 out of pride/’fairness’, which funnily enough is not a moral compunction my dude partner has ever felt.
Of course, no kids yet, here. So who knows what the hell would happen then. Maybe switching paychecks to automatically going into the family account, with the little deduction going into the separate accounts? I am not sure.
We make enough money that, because we are pretty nerdy and don’t go out/spend much money just because our lifestyles don’t require it (also, my job is one of those soul-eating do-very-little-else types), mostly I don’t worry. This is a privilege I’m not sure I can let go, even though I also feel I am starting to burn out a little.
Having more than one account at all is a sign of the luxury we have – we are never scraping the bottom of any of them, freaking out whether we’ve overdrawn, etc. I make enough to avoid these issues and I am glad as fuck, it sounds nasty, and I don’t want to worry about it when I can avoid it, any time I can avoid some area of stress entirely I am going to fight like a dog to keep it that way.
[…] blue milk discusses money and relationships. […]
That NYT article was horrible! What a poor smattering of women if they are that naive/willfully ignorant about their finaces. A marriage is a union of equals. THey should both know everything upfront. Even if I do most of the money managing, I would never use the verb “control.” That’s sad that so many women are comfortable with their big strong man “controlling” *their* finances.
[…] where I have talked about ‘work and family juggling’ as a topic involving both men and women, none the less, this concern comes up quite a bit here. I realise that some feminists […]
[…] got thinking about this last week when blogger blue milk put up a post about money and relationships, riffing on a New York Times piece on money-sharing in marriage. The comments on the blue milk […]