Some have been suggesting I am not radical enough in my feminism in this post, where I argue that an internalised misogyny has led us to devalue mothering to such an extent that we can only imagine equality for women when a sufficient portion of that disagreeable work has been offloaded to men. It says something very unpleasant about the way we view children. As I said in that previous post, men and women sharing roles equally may be what it looks like when we find equality but it might instead be women continuing to specialise (to some degree) in the care of children, particularly when children are very young, and this work being valued equally to that performed in the marketplace.
Here’s an example of such a criticism, and I hate to pick on one particular commenter, because she’s probably a nice person who wrote something in a hurry while trying to get much more important things done than jam-making, but this comment illustrates my point perfectly..
Hello! Okay so it occurred to me that my saying X is a lousy criteria is one of those deals where it would hurt the author’s feelings. Unfortunately, x IS a lousy criteria: “We will know we’re living in a world of equality not when just as many men as women are staying home making jam and looking after babies but when women can talk about their life making jam and looking after babies without everyone freaking the fuck out.”
People talked about women making jam a 1000 years ago “without freaking out”, and pretty sure women weren’t equal.
Sure, there is nothing particularly radical about making jam. There’s nothing particularly radical about playing golf either, and it is something the men in my office love to do when they’re not ‘working’. I’m yet to see an article disparaging men for it though. And you could wonder why some men are choosing hobbies that give them even more time away from their families and I would agree with you, but why do I care then if women are wanting to make fucking jam?
So in some ways, this article is just one more in a long line of same which claims “I will be as bimbo as I want, and you will call me a genuine feminist or else”. Most of the women writing such drivel are still bimbos pushing sexist norms onto their child. It’s a justification.
Right. Because to talk about pursuing something in the domestic realm as a woman is to be labelled a “bimbo”. Men can pickle vegetables or play a round of golf and neither pleasure will see them labelled brainless for it.
The thing that’s killing me about both your article (which I loved, btw) and the comments is that they keep coming close to but then veering around the key issue: the fact that feminism hasn’t figured out a good vocabulary or solution for the difference between work in the job market and work in the home. They’re both economically productive work; the work we do in the home creates the next generation of workers for the corporations and the government. It’s just that one kind of work has a dollar value and the other, for some mysterious reason, doesn’t. We’re supposed to do it out of love and not complain (and if you complain, you’re a bad mommy!).
It’s crucial to the government and business interests that we continue doing this work for free, and that is precisely why it is devalued and not considered to be “work.” It doesn’t seem coincidental that the media seem to be more interested than ever in demonizing mothers, with crap like the Casey Anthony trial and that “Are You Mom Enough?” magazine cover; the more women are judging each other, after all, the less we’ll focus on how we’re getting screwed, doing all this unpaid work that is supposedly trivial.
I don’t know the solution for this problem, but let’s look it square in the eye; it affects these no-win “choices” that every mother has to make.
Agree with your observations about the acceptability of complaining. For some reason it is more acceptable for my brother to talk about how crap it would be to have kids and all the reasons why he doesn’t want them (which actually borders on offensive) than for me to talk about the trials of actual parenthood. It is most bizarre.
Wow. I haven’t been called a bimbo since I was 18. Want some jam?
I saw your point as quite an obvious one – we ought to value and reward women’s work *even if women do it*.
I don’t know what Equalitopia will look like either, but I’m fairly sure it won’t involve reflex sneering at anything with feminine connotations.
As the essence of ‘women’s work” motherhood is associated in people’s minds with the reality of their oppression. Therefore, they reject it.
Agree with you on this too having spent today stuck in side with a pile of laundry and two grumpy children while my husband is at work.
You put your finger right on an issue that was bothering me, right when it was bothering me, but before I could articulate what it was about this ‘anti-jam’ talk that was starting to really get to me. Rather like scratching an itch – thank you.
Signed,
An overworked childless software engineer (hello anti-kid feminists, see how much I am Winning exactly according to your rules) who sheds a tear now and then quite exactly over having no knowledge of jam-making, something her own mother does with incredible skill.
Sometimes I wonder if I did change careers and try kid-raising/home-making exclusively for awhile if the homey-related criticism would sting less. I am content with my person, so people shitting on my life choices don’t bother me SO much, but man it sure bothers me when people shit on my dreams! It’s hard to shake, somehow.
I love the description AnotherBlue gave, your posts are indeed very often like scratching an itch for me. Thank you for that.
“I argue that an internalised misogyny has led us to devalue mothering to such an extent that we can only imagine equality for women when a sufficient portion of that disagreeable work has been offloaded to men”. I don’t know. For me, the second part is true, not because I devalue parenting and find childcare disagreeable, completely the opposite. I find it so fulfilling and rewarding that if I want to talk and work towards equality I feel that my husband should be able to enjoy the same portion of it. This could be a non-feminist opinion, but I do wonder whether in the whole line of choice feminism men also have a choice. I have been wanting to put my thoughts on this for a while from the perspective of parenting in The Netherlands, your post has inspired me to get on it.
‘my jam-making will be radical or it will be bull-shit’?
‘radical jam or no jam!’ could be a good t-shirt/tea towel slogan.
pointless anecdote: i’m a fairly hard-core radical feminist and i’m also a kick-ass baker and very competent in the realms of domesticity. i would’ve made an awesome 50s housewife (well, i probably would’ve been one of those 50s housewives that killed their husband with rat-sac in the tea & scones, but still). and i think i’d be pretty good at the skill & art of mothering should i be lucky enough to have children – in that case i’d consider it enjoyable and worthwhile (in terms of both feminist activism & economic/social contribution) to be able to spend a significant amount of my time doing the work of mothering.
um, anyway. just wanted to clarify that radical feminism values children, mothers and motherhood (probably a shirtload more than most other feminisms). just incase people were thinking the ‘radical’ referred to in the post was ‘radical feminism’.
so, now i’m going to have tea & toast with jam that my mum made!
Oh god, modrad, I WISH I’d had a friend like you when my kids were babes! TOO funny!
[…] is an interesting article at https://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/radical-jam-making/ about a rift among feminists. Bluemilk and I believe that caring jobs such as mothering and running […]
I wouldn’t put it the way the poster has but I would also criticise a man who chose to play golf instead of paid work. And I do know a few trustafarians who do this and I think it is silly and wasteful.
I don’t think you are comparing like with like. Unless they are professional golfers, men (and women) usually play golf as a hobby outside paid work as a way of relaxing and taking a break. You were using jam to symbolise things women do in the domestic sphere instead of paid work not as a hobby/relaxation, no?
In general, women who don’t do paid work are doing childraising instead. The other stuff (jam, knitting, kayaking, whatever) is the hobby on the side of that.
Ok, I am clearly finding the analogy confusing! I thought the point of Bluemilk’s article was to address the article about “retro housewives” – women who were quitting their careers to become domestic goddesses ie: make jam? The reference to “their life making jam and looking after babies” made me think that she was referring to it as more than a hobby but an integral part of the mother’s day. If it was “playing golf and looking after babies” I would think the golf was just as silly as making jam and definitely not something one should be out of the paid workforce for.
Part of the point is that making jam as a hobby can happen in the home. Playing golf can’t – but a man who leaves the home and children to enjoy his hobby is not criticised in the same way as a woman who does the domestic work in a family is criticised for making hobbies and enjoying herself in the home. A woman who enjoys her domestic hobby at home is called a bimbo. A man enjoying his typically masculine hobby while leaving someone else to look after the house and children is not called a bimbo. Despite the fact that both are doing something they enjoy doing purely for enjoyment’s sake.
I don’t think it’s just the location, but the nature of the activity. Why should producing food be considered a “hobby”? Cooking for the family is productive work, surely, no matter how enjoyable it is.
On what grounds would you criticize a man for choosing not to participate in paid work?
But, yes, the bimbo language is very offensive. Making jam well is actually quite hard!
Oh, and has anyone read Margaret Mahy’s book “Jam” about the stay-at-home dad who makes lots and lots of Jam. Your analogy made me smile for that reason. Wonderful story.
I think that your post was excellent, and spot on with how I have felt for years- but then again I am the stay at home mom sort of feminist so I could be biased. I think that so much of liberal feminism is based on the premise that motherhood/women’s work is not worth doing, at all, by anyone, or maybe just that it’s like cleaning the fridge? or really really crappy, anyhow. I think this premise is false, it’s an assumption which actually seems crazy to me- what’s better- napping with a snuggly baby? or sitting in an office? Yes there is drudge work in motherhood, but there is drudge work in the working world as well, and everyone has to do laundry.
I feel terribly sorry for my husband who has to go to work during the day to support our family. I would even go a step further than you- and say that true equality will happen when both parents get to stay at home and soak up the sweetest years of their kid’s lives, and explore the fun and challenge that is making jam.
The golfing thing has been sitting with me for a bit – the thing about it is that, the way I’ve seen it, guys going out golfing are usually doing it to both network and politick with their workmates. Yes, it’s a fun thing they are doing, and they might not be going FOR the politicking/networking, but if they’re going golfing with their workmates (especially supervisors/managers/etc.) there’s kind of an inescapable element of that, innit?
Agree, too, that it does say some unkind things to suggest that True Equality is when “drudgery” aka caregiving and carework is a chore equally shared between parents of both sexes. I’ll think of it more as equality when carework is just as revered as other types of work, paid and/or unpaid.
Agree about the golf thing in that respect. I used to go running with my bosses and others in my professional circle and it certainly helped my career.
Funnily enough though, the only people in my family who play golf are the women – generations and generations of them!
Maybe it’s a generational thing but the idea of relegating jam making to a “hobby” really grates with me. I understand that for some people it may be and it would bring pleasure & satisfaction I imagine.
I can’t be the only person who grew up with with jam making & other preserving as an essential economic contribution to the household especially in combination with homegrown produce or bulk buys from the local orchard.
And as we become more concerned with the sources of our foodstuffs and try to buy local, support small farmers and know & where necessary control what we’re eating how is this “bimbo” territory. And there’s a whole other rant somewhere about that word somewhere in me too.
That is an interesting and really important point. I am guess I am thinking of the sort of gourmet cooking that is undertaken by “domestic goddess” much of which I think is indulgent and the result of privilege. I have a certain friend’s wife in mind who has both kids in private schools and spends her days making organic icecream for when they get home from school. I find it silly and wasteful but my beef with it is probably result of my own frustration – the most stressful part of my day is the nursery/school pick up and the last thing I have time or energy for is making organic icecream.
I think in some ways we are sort of biologically hard wired to care for our children, call it what you like but the baby’s crying gets to me much more quickly than my husband and he is by far the less selfish of the two of us. And men are perhaps preconditioned or hard wired to be able to leave their families to go forth and hunt…or conquer (usually expensive, inconvenient, and fruitless). I possibly look at it like this because my husband is in the army – U.S. – hopefully the fruitless conquering comment immediately made you assume I am an American. Probably I just offended nonAmericans who appreciate military involvement elsewhere, or Americans, whatever, now I’m just pointing out I’m not blinding criticizing. Moving on. So, I think in terms of what is the language of or the triumph of or will we even see a triumph when there is one of feminism is somewhere in the place where you are staying at home reading blogs and not making jam because while you are a stay at home mom you actually don’t like being a housewife because laundry is boring. There are moments with my baby that are really awesome although they fail to erase 39 weeks of misery. Don’t I feel blessed and all to have a baby, to have conceived so easily at the advanced maternal age of 37 (actually we are stationed overseas in Israel and I’m not old enough for that here…)? I agree that most would consider those things blessings but really mostly its genetics and such. And honestly I would love an adopted child just as much. Anyway mostly my feminist triumph is that my husband thinks my staying home is mostly tedious work that doesn’t fully fulfill me and he just wants me to be happy whether that is due to jam making or art doing or book reading or day dreaming. Maybe triumphant feminism is being able to complain about staying home because it is boring at least some of the time. And when you do work outside of the home you might have a commute. I’m from Los Angeles. I miss commuting. Walking downstairs to a crying infant is not driving through Starbucks and spending an hour in traffic listening to music and waking up for the day. And you can actually leave work when you work outside of the home. I rarely leave my house without at least the dog or baby as part of my entourage (or mobile tagging along household anchors) and for sure when I walk out my front door I am not leaving work behind.
Recent research out of Oxford indicates the opposite of what you say. In fact, the sound of a crying baby affects everyone’s brains the same way (even regardless of parental status):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/oct/17/crying-babies-hard-ignore
“None of the study participants was a parent or had any particular experience of looking after babies, yet they all responded in the same way, after 100 milliseconds, to the baby cries.”
Perhaps mothers respond quicker due to socialisation – they are primarily responsible in the household usually. If your husband was primarily responsible for your baby then I am sure if would start to affect him in the same way as it does you.
Men are better at pretending to be asleep?
I make jam AND service the lawn mower myself…I am a feminist – some call me radical even rabid. i like making jam🙂