You might want to read this.. not only because the whole damn Internet is talking about it, but because it is a really, really important conversation for on-line feminism to be having.
Also, these responses here (where I included my own preliminary thoughts on the topic as a comment on that post), here, here, here, here, and here.
Fascinating! Thanks so much for linking. The original Feministe post addresses so many (too many?) different topics, but Jill’s perspectives on unrealistic reader expectations/responses to blogs are SUPER relevant to all online writers.
I’ve really struggled over the years with challenges readers who are angry and baffled that I am not able to make my websites perfectly catered to them and their perspectives. It’s flattering that people view my web work as important enough to be worth their time, but exhausting trying to keep up with the expectations.
As for the more feminst-blogosopher-specific issues i that post, my introduction to the feminist blogosphere was getting called out on by a prominent rad-fem writer. There was then a 90-comment pile-on about all the ways that I sucked even more. I’m a big girl — some of the criticisms of my writing were valid — but the calling out/pile-on “you suck”-ness of the whole experience was enough to keep me far, far away from the feminist blogosphere. I avoided writing publicly about anything related to feminism again — which, was that the goal? One less feminist sharing her experience? If so, mission accomplished!
Thanks again for writing about this. I’ve passed this post on to all my editors, and all the pro-bloggers I know in my corner of the web. I especially appreciated your comment here.
Yikes. I am a big fan of Twisty/Jill’s writing but I would not like to be the target of her posts. Poor you, how bloody awful that must have been. And while feminism needs debate/discussion/critique, you’re right about that kind of thing putting off a lot of feminists from entering the pit.
Yeah, it was a drubbing, to be sure. The worst part was the my article wasn’t intended for Alternet — it was posted on a friend’s tiny little webzine, and she failed to tell me they had a syndication deal with Alternet. Worse, Alternet changed the title of the original post to make it more contentious. Explaining that context wasn’t worth it at the time (I’m a big fan of taking criticism gracefully), but the whole experience was awful, from beginning to end.
The one upside to this kind of thing is that once you’ve been raked across the coals by a feminist blogger, things like negative book reviews barely even register. I don’t know what it says that feminists treat each other so harshly online that “regular” criticism feels like nuthin’ by comparison.
(Also, wow: apologies for all my typos.)
I’ve never been called out as prominently as Ariel, but I agree- the trend towards nastiness and need to be oh so careful to use just the right words is one of the things that keeps me away from the general feminist blogosphere.
That and the almost reflexive calling of privilege. I get so sick of reading “that’s a white woman’s problem!” about things. First of all, they are usually upper middle class problems, not exclusively white problems. Second of all, well, yes- I have the problems of a relatively well off white woman BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I AM. I recognize that other people have different, and often times worse, problems, but does that mean I can’t write about my own problems? On my own blog? I stay away from commenting on blogs like Jezebel, etc., because the last thing I want is some of those people following me home to my blog.
This is one of the reasons I was so glad to find your blog- you find some of the more interesting things out there and talk about them here in a way that makes people like me feel willing to comment and join the conversation. So thanks for doing that. (But no pressure to keep doing it… cute kid pictures are awesome, too.)
“I have the problems of a relatively well off white woman BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I AM.”
This is actually the predominant reason that I haven’t started a feminist blog. I’ve had nightmares of commenters ripping a curtain away from my naked body, crying, “You’re not oppressed enough!”
There is definitely a very valid place for alerting feminists to their privelege, whether it be white/middle-class/educated/high-income/whatever but you’re right that picking on the middle-class excessively is kind of picking on a soft target. The middle-class have always been among the biggest contributors to activism – they have just enough money/time/connections to be very effective at activism and are not wealthy enough to be completely out of touch with real disadvantage – sometimes having come from backgrounds in poverty. And frankly, it is a hard path for any woman to be a feminist and in general, other feminists should be supporting her more than they are criticising her.
It really seems, in a lot of these blowups, that there is an underlying problem of not recognizing comment moderation as work. To really have a productive conversation with a large group, you have to moderate the hell out of it. But it’s like parenting, or setting up a bridge club, or any of the other “social” labor women do – invisible. So when someone misses something else important everyone thinks they should be doing, and cries “but i spend all my time moderating and it is exhausting” the audience has no sympathy.
Blogs that take ads make money off the commentariat. Those that don’t, don’t. It’s an awful lot like the repeated failure of anarchist spaces – everyone wants to be the artist or the barista, nobody wants to sweep the floor or watch the bank account.
While it’s true that comment moderation is work (and excellent job linking it to the invisible social labor that women usually do), in an ideal world, it wouldn’t be. 😉 It does seem strange to me that people who are (ostensibly) getting together to advocate for tolerance of different groups of marginalized people can come up with some of the ugliest comment threads I’ve ever seen!
@bluemilk: I really, really enjoyed the link to “She Has My Eyes,” as hers was a perspective I hadn’t thought of. Thank you for including her voice in this discussion.
It’s work everywhere, though. From a kindergarten class to an academic panel, you have to have a good moderator, especially if you want to make a space for voices that aren’t usually heard. Free-for-alls like newspaper comment pages and old-school listservs devolve into only the best-armored and least interested in changing or being civil.
Paid moderating or editing work is difficult because of the emotional content, but unpaid moderating is the worst, emotionally, because you’re doing it in a community you care about – so not only are you not compensated with either prestige or money for your invisible work, you’re attacked by people in your own community.
Yes, that link at She HAs My Eyes is very valuable in that it forces you to stop and think druing this discussion on Internet manners – how much of what I get annoyed about is about my privelege, and how often do I act as an ally for those without my privelege?
Absolutely!