Warning: although not intended, this post and the comments that follow may be offensive/hurtful, particularly to transgender people. At the very least it will be tedious, very tedious. My apology is in the comments.
No transgression freaks people out like gender transgression. Gender is just one of the many characteristics which describe us, but such is our obsession with this category that you’d think it was the only one. On the off chance that you haven’t already heard this news story about a transman who is five months pregnant, I’m linking to his story here. And also, I can’t resist that photo – incredible! Thomas Beatie is so much better looking than Arnie as a pregnant man.
How much did your husband want a baby? Enough to gestate it if that was the only way the two of you could have your baby together? Thomas Beatie wanted a baby with his wife, enough. They’re a legally married couple who’ve been together for ten years. But oh no, don’t let them mess with the almighty gender classifications.
Sterilization is not a requirement for sex reassignment, so I decided to have chest reconstruction and testosterone therapy but kept my reproductive rights. Wanting to have a biological child is neither a male nor female desire, but a human desire.
Ten years ago, when Nancy and I became a couple, the idea of us having a child was more dream than plan. I always wanted to have children. However, due to severe endometriosis 20 years ago, Nancy had to undergo a hysterectomy and is unable to carry a child. But after the success of our custom screen-printing business and a move from Hawaii to the Pacific Northwest two years ago, the timing finally seemed right.
As you may have guessed, Beatie and his partner have had to endure some awful responses to their pregnancy.
Our situation sparks legal, political, and social unknowns. We have only begun experiencing opposition from people who are upset by our situation. Doctors have discriminated against us, turning us away due to their religious beliefs. Health care professionals have refused to call me by a male pronoun or recognize Nancy as my wife. Receptionists have laughed at us. Friends and family have been unsupportive; most of Nancy’s family doesn’t even know I’m transgender.
Beatie isn’t stopping us from being girly-girls and manly-men if we want to be. Transgender people really shouldn’t threaten us. Now that we know gender isn’t necessarily our anatomy, isn’t necessarily our hormones, isn’t necessarily our personality traits, and isn’t necessarily our appearance, when can we just lighten up about it all together?
By outing himself as a pregnant man Thomas Beatie is bravely and calmly taking us all towards a better understanding of the fluidity of gender.
But our situation ultimately will ask everyone to embrace the gamut of human possibility and to define for themselves what is normal.
How brave. Sad that it has to be a brave thing to do, but in the light of the rigidity of our gender constructs, brave nevertheless.
The link to the story didn’t work for me. Try this one instead:
http://advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid52947.asp
I am confused by the public/private dynamic in this family. Thomas writes that outside of the medical community no one knows about his pregnancy, but then there is this desire to have worldwide influence on the perceptions and constructs of gender. I do think this situation should be considered by a board of ethics; I am not at all shocked that the doctor requested that. I am having a hard time thinking about this situation as it is such a challenge to “what is normal.” Thanks for making me think, bluemilk.
I’m shocked, and yet not, by doctors turning him away. So much for “do no harm”.
Screw the world. What they’re doing is marvelous in their own lives and a little more than awesome for everyone else, too. Even if -everyone- doesn’t know it yet.
Also, my husband is so jealous. He’s wanted to carry our children since the start. He’s half in love with the idea of bringing life into the world and half passionate that he could do it better (less fuss, healthier, blah blah). We’re both competitive with each other and his being completely unable to hurts his heart and his pride. lol.
I found this image to be really confronting. But Thomas’ words make it seem it very normal and almost prosaic – a sensible and practical decision. Hearing the voices of people almost always makes them seem human rather than part of a gender (or any other) category.
[…] neighbors disbelieve the pregnancy story entirely, suspecting a hoax. The feminist blog Blue Milk, however, applauds Beatie for outing himself as a pregnant man, crediting him with, "bravely […]
I found this really confronting at first, but knowing that his wife is unable to carry a child somehow makes me feel better about it. Not that it’s any of my business to feel anything about it. At least it’s not just for the publicity, as I initially thought it might be.
What would the board of ethics be considering, apart from whether the doctor should be disciplined? I had thought that it was illegal to discriminate on the grounds of transgender status. What are the grounds for refusal of care?
Good on him, and her. This won’t be an easy journey for either of them. I hope they can get the birth certificate they want, also.
Wow, what a situation. We are bad at gender. I know it is only part of my definition, but it is an essential part. I don’t find transgender in any way disturbing, I just feel terribly sorry for them – it’s a hard road, and this guy has taken the hardest available path. Good on them, I hope they find every happiness.
At first I thought this story was another performance artist situation, per:
http://www.malepregnancy.com/
but then I read more carefully (always helps!:)) and realized he’s transgender.
Definitely an interesting case study in the fluidity of gender and social expectations. I’m as comfortable AND uncomfortable with Beatie’s decision as I am with any “woman” who is unable to convieve without medical intervention. So in that way, I don’t feel discriminatory towards him. Of course, this is more complicated because he’s chosen to go OFF medications that have artificially allowed him to feel and look like a man despite his biology. I have problems with screwing around with biology more than I do with screwing around with identity and our place in society. Call me hypocricial, of course, because I’m not anti-live-saving medications, etc. Sigh. Everything’s complicated, isn’t it?
I know it is judgmental of me, but I am full of questions about his health insurance (how can “he” have maternity care????) and whether or not Nancy will take medication so that she can lactate as a “mother” and Thomas can, after this brief hiatus of female empowerment, go on to be the “father.”
As feminist mothers, don’t we tend to think of the wonders of pregnancy and birth and breastfeeding as “ours”? I’m sure Ani DiFranco wasn’t the first person to call birth the epicenter of women’s power. Why should Thomas get to exercise that power if he identifies as and asks that others identify him as a man???? Thomas wanting it both ways and having a fluid gender just seems disrespectful of Mother Nature. I don’t have a problem with him being transgender, but the way he has biologically altered his body makes it seem like he wants to be “full-time.” He has dealt with his transgenderness with hormones and surgery. I am like westwardbound in my thought process because I have a tendency to discriminate against people who mess with biology. But I recognize that is because I have had an easy time of it and I don’t know what others struggle with.
fightingwindmills – I take your point. I’ve seen two opposing schools of feminist thought in relation to this question.
A) women will never achieve true equality until we reach a technological point where gestation is not an exclusively female activity, until then women will be broadly seen as and treated as farm animals.
Or.
B) There is a worrying movement towards technologically ‘improving’ (and therefore also criticising the existing) female capacity to conceive and gestate, taking it outside female power to one largely dominated by male (medical) power and thereby eroding the value of women’s only uniquely female power.
I lean a little more towards B, personally speaking, than A.
The feminist movement is also somewhat divided about transgender as well, which complicates Beatie’s story, from lesbian bois who embrace chauvenism to the whole “born womin/womin only” events controversy. I don’t personally feel terribly confronted by transgender, I’m happy with the overall queer approach to gender as a spectrum, even though I feel “very much female” and am attracted to some “very much male” types.
In the case of Thomas Beatie I come down very firmly on his side. He and his wife want a baby, they can create a baby using the same medical interventions afforded to standard straighties, they should be able to have a baby. I think what bugs people mostly about Beatie’s case is that he is, by doing so, fucking with the gender roles. That’s why I love that photo of Beatie, one arm in a very masculine position, bicep and underarm hair highlighted, and the other arm doing the whole quintessential pregnant female thing with “peaceful wonderment at life-giving belly” thing, complete with the wedding ring.
Yes, Beatie is dipping into and enjoying some male privilege and some female privilege, but in the scheme of things he is probably owed some for all the disadvantages he will have experienced from transgender.
Do the people here who have issues with “messing with biology” object to women using birth control, artificial insemination, IVF, medications, necessary birth interventions? Adoption?
On health insurance: all the more reason for universal cover.
“Yes, Beatie is dipping into and enjoying some male privilege and some female privilege”
I’m guessing he has pretty much bugger-all of either, much of the time. No one can convincingly argue that he’s hoeing an easy road here. Everyone has a basic human right to have a family, if they so wish and if it is reasonably accessible to them. Ain’t no way in a million years this couple is going to be accepted as adoptive parents, so this is the only way they’re going to manage it.
I don’t feel that feminist mothers should stake any particular claim on motherhood (it’s totally open to non-feminist mothers, for example); nor do I feel that all feminist “power” emanates from it (where does this leave childless and childfree feminists?)
Thanks lauredhel –
You’re right about Beatie undoubtedly having a pretty hard time of it. I don’t want to appear to be part of criticism of him. Privilege might be the wrong word to have used. He is dipping into some male and female experiences, and I guess if any of us have the courage we’re welcome to join him in a bit of gender transgression if we feel we’re missing out on any of the advantages of that.
Re. motherhood as feminist power. I have difficulties with what I lovingly refer to as ‘goddess feminism’ too, but I know from those feminists in my discussion group who identify with this side of feminism that it’s very empowering to them, and that most of them don’t have children (they love talking about menstruation though).. so this branch of feminism obviously offers something to childless and childfree feminists too. I imagine it is part of the ownership and celebration of female-ness, although I’m not entirely sure because I’ve shied away from it and never delved into it (touched on it a bit through my exposure to midwifery with my pregnancy). For those of us less inclined to celebrate difference and rather more interested in the many similarities between genders this can all seem a bit odd.
Just found this –
http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2008/03/what_is_transfe
Very timely.
“But perhaps education is not only about what I as a trans woman have learned, and continue to learn, of feminism. Surely other trans women’s issues and experiences can help to educate feminists? For example, the notion of passing – “the ability of an individual to be successfully accepted by others as belonging to a gender opposite to that of their biological sex” – may well be seen by some feminists as reinforcing a stereotypical element of the gender binary and therefore by default supporting patriarchal oppression. The question of “feminity vs. feminism” is considered at length by Julia Serano in her book Whipping Girl. And I would like to quote Deirdre Nansen McCloskey, from her book Crossing: A Memoir, where she gives a simple and heartfelt response to why some trans women learn stereotypical feminine gestures: “It’s to keep from getting murdered, dear”. I for one am quite open about my transsexuality; I have nothing to be ashamed of, even though I don’t ‘pass’ all that well – my condition is first and foremost about my relationship with my body. Nevertheless I can definitely empathise with the statement that “[just walking down the street] is like educating the public”. Perhaps, then, trans women do have insights to offer in the debate as to why our issues have a place in feminism: if nothing else, we must surely agree that gender variance, and how we express it, should be a right common to all if we are serious about ending discrimination.”
I agree that motherhood can be a feminist-inspiring experience (talked it before!) or that some women may find aspects of their female reproductive system to be wrapped up with their feminism. And I get the reclamatory urge, after motherhood has been used for so long (and is still used) as a tool for women’s oppression.
Rather, I disagree that motherhood is _the_ epicentre of feminist power, as if there is only one. People come to feminism and feel feminism in all kinds of different ways.
Thank you for this discussion. I looked at thefword link and I am learning so much. Well, all last night Thomas Beatie was present in my dreams. I am trying so hard to come around and be more open minded.
lauredhel, you question my view of birth control, artificial insemination, IVF, medications, and necessary birth interventions and I would have to admit that in my own case I tend to be self-congratulatory about my fertility and “ability” to give birth naturally. But I realize that I am being unfair and discriminatory by ranking natural over artificial. Life is more complicated than that dichotomy. I see how 100% juice is better than juice mixed with high fructose corn syrup and I try to place that same judgment on fertility treatments and births. It doesn’t work. I am trying to unlearn that view. Thanks for being patient with me.
I’ve been quietly reveling in this story ever since I caught wind of it. As someone who identifies as genderqueer – and yes, fightingwindmills, that means I want it “both ways” and consider myself to have a fluid gender identity; I will be upfront and admit that your comments regarding that identity offended me greatly – but as someone who is both/and, it was really refreshing to see other individuals willing to take these strides. I know he’s not doing it for me, and I know that the roads he’s chosen to walk are going to be difficult, but I can’t help but feel pride and solidarity with this pregnant guy and his family.
One of the things I understand least about feminism is the conflicting notions of gender as socially constructed and of gender as something essentialised – like this whole deal with womanhood “belonging” to women-born-women. The radfems who freak out over transexual bodies remind me too much of the rightwingers who freak out over them, often for the exact same reason. Amp’s got a cartoon here that pretty much sums up my opinion on the subject.
And although I cannot claim to be an expert, it seems to me that “mother” is just as much a category of social construction as anything else – it is a collection of symbols and associations that are typically imagined as feminine but are not intrinsically so. “Motherhood” is manifested differently from culture to culture and age to age … so I don’t see why this man can’t mother or father his child as he and his wife see fit.
I’m conflicted about this. On a personal level I think, okay they can do what they want.
But, I’m not that sure this does move women forward into equality.
First Thomas the transgendered rejected his femininity.
And then reserves the right to carry a child as a mother?
This is good for all the other women/mothers on the planet how?
Am I supposed to be happy or somehow relieved that not only to men have most of the political and social power but also men can now carry children just like me? Sure, why don’t you take the one thing I’ve got that you don’t.
How is this not minimizing and invalidating to women? Does this finally just make us obsolete? Thank God they can’t manufacture a uterus yet or men might just cut us out of the whole process – except of course the cleaning and babysitting – I’m sure they’ll still leave us that place in the world.
As a basically straight, just about stereotypical woman, I’m not exactly speaking from experience here, but my understanding is that transgender people don’t “reject their femininity” (or masculinity), they either don’t have it, or like Sara no H, they embrace both.
This guy has followed this path because his brain is wired male, but his body was female (as a very crude approximation) and then he has ended up with a partner who can’t have a child. They are doing what they need to do to have a baby. I don’t see how this is bad for other women on the planet. I don’t see my uterus as a weapon to be wielded against injustice, nor do I see it as only thing I’ve got that men don’t. And I definitely don’t see how discriminating against someone with unusual circumstances helps the cause for true equality for everyone.
I am always using my femaleness/womanhood as leverage in my marriage. For example I will tell my husband that I get to decide certain aspects of my children’s births because I am the woman. I appreciate that I have had a doctor and a midwife who have helped me feel in control and have guided me through labor in ways that made me feel powerful. A lot of people who are pro-choice promote the idea that a woman should have the last word about the pregnancy simply because she is the woman. Because of that distinction that I make, I don’t want true equality in my relationship with him. There are things that I need to do because I think they are part of my essence. And there are things that I need him to do because they are part of his essence.
When my daughter was born she smelled so wonderful. I told my husband to lean in closer so that he could smell her. We were both crying with joy and amazement because she smelled like my menstrual blood/cervical fluid/my femaleness. The way she smelled was confirmation of my body’s amazing design; whether or not you are a conservative Christian I think you can appreciate the miracle of reproduction.
When Thomas says that he remains confident in his maleness and that pregnancy is incredible that makes me defensive. I am thinking that feeling is for women only. The body that was biologically designed for this process is the body that Thomas rejected. Or maybe the Advocate limited the word count and he didn’t get to say all he needed to say in order to make things clear that he is both/and. I got the impression that he was claiming to be a pregnant male. That is what bothers me so much. It really, really bothers me. If we say that biology is not destiny and our bodies can be changed with surgery and hormones, then why would it make sense to revel in the fact that Thomas’ original biology is functioning as it was originally meant to? So now can we admit that biology is destiny in his case?
Sara, I had not hoped that my comments would be offensive, rather they are evidence that I am trying to understand something which very much challenges me and my worldview. I’m sorry that I came off poorly in struggling to express myself.
A lot of people who are pro-choice promote the idea that a woman should have the last word about the pregnancy simply because she is the woman.
I kinda gathered we made that argument because she’s the one carrying the child. Child-bearing is conflated with identity as a woman in this case, but as Thomas is proving, that doesn’t necessarily have to be true.
I can see how a man bearing a child is threatening to someone who believes that childbearing is the seat, or at least a very important part, of her identity as a woman. It undermines it a little, yeah? To me, though, that sounds an awful lot like “well having a career is a male thing, it’s how men prove their masculinity, if women do it too it’s less manly” or “but if gay people get married too, straight marriage will be less special” or any other number of arguments that rest on some essentialised idea of what gender/race/orientation is.
I know you weren’t trying to be offensive – I’m sure there were much more colourful words you could have used if you had been. But that doesn’t necessarily make it easier to hear. Being fluid or multi-anything is difficult enough without people whose side you think you’re on begin slingin’ the same shit, you know? I was really startled and almost completely turned off of feminism the first time I heard a radfem accuse transexuals of trying to “co-opt womanhood for men” because it’s like – it’s not about that, and while yes there’s problematicals tied up in gender identity across bodily boundaries that doesn’t mean that the whole thing should be suspect or moot or shot on sight, which is kinda where I tend to see things leaning among radical camps. They left us outta EDNA, where does that line stop, you know?
This issue is especially hot for me right now because I’m pregnant and the whole being “out” as consistently female thing is difficult for me in places. I no longer have the option of passing whichever way I please, which is a freedom I had begun to take for granted. Is biology destiny in my case too? Or is it just that sometimes a body does what a body does whether or not the persyn occupying it happens to agree? Maybe it’s just that I come at it from an angle of plasticity and mutability – fluidity – I reject essentialism and inherency so I don’t think it’s at all contradictory for Thomas to have changed his body as much as possible to match what he felt it should be, only to latently discover that the original parts were just as necessary. There’s a weird vibe of genital attachment to the view that it somehow should matter that makes me shake my head in confusion – why does it matter as long as his body is working in the way he needs it to work?
I don’t see it that way _at all_. Rather, a woman should have the last word about her births and her pregnancies because it is her body, and according to feminist theory, (a) women are people; and (b) people should have bodily sovereignty, whether they happen to be male or female.
The same principle of reproductive justice carries over to this man’s pregnancy: whether or not there are societal factors involved (and there always are), the absolute bottom line is that it’s his body, his decision.
lauredhel – I think you handled the body sovereignty stuff about pro-choice origins very well, thanks.
Sara No H – Thank you for participating in this conversation, for most of us this is a purely theoretical discussion but for you it is real life and I know that means you’re probably calling on all your reserves of patience to take part in this discussion. Your insights have really made this discussion something else though. You have been so honest and analytical. Thanks!
fightingwindmills – Athough I can’t relate to your feelings I can see that you’re really challenged by this stuff and I’m impressed that you’re testing yourself and your reactions so much.
Tracee – I can’t help but feel that some of our discussion comes down to what appears to be fighting over the scraps. ie. queer/transgender people can’t have any of the power of maternity because that’s ours as women (at least the way maternity is celebrated, which is very narrowly, even for women), and we have so little power we’re not going to give any of it up to you.
When a bunch of disadvantaged people are fighting over the scraps the real issue is why is there only these scraps of acknowledgement and power for us, not who gets the goodies. Don’t you think?
—————————————
If we feel threatened about transgender it is worth thinking about the spectrum of gender (there are far more differences between all women than there are differences between women and men), thinking about how much of it is artificial, thinking about what you’ll tolerate in terms of transgression and what you won’t (men with long hair, women wearing trousers, men wearing dresses, women with beards?) – how subjective that all is. Why should someone stick to our individual definition of gender? Do we want people to be forced to stick to our definitions of gender even when they feel such pain of dislocation? Do we really have to give up any of our own identity to make room for theirs? Much of gender is just cultural display. It isn’t univeral, it isn’t instinctive, it isn’t even timeless.
Wow–I popped into this discussion early on and then left for the weekend to check back in today. This is all enlightening. Ideologically, I think I am a hybrid of flightingwindmills and bluemilk on this. I tried to write about this once on my blog re. plastic surgery and Mommy Makeovers: that if we and society truly recognized who we “are” as our souls/spirits (not in a religious way, necessarily) WITHIN a biological construct, I wouldn’t have any problem with medically messing around with those biological constructs. When they don’t look or function exactly as we wish, we could alter them however we’d like. But for most people, that’s not the way it is, and as Sara No H probably knows best–because she sees it from both sides, we are judged and discriminated against because of our biological constructs. So messing around with them gets really tricky.
Does this mean I’m uncomfortable with gender fluidity? I was in love with a man who wore long hair and long skirts in college (I consider myself pretty far in the hetero direction in terms of my sexuality, but not totally disinterested in women). I think it ROCKS when people have not only the spiritual (again, not religious) urge to act differently than their biological constructs suggest they should, but the GUTS to do something about it.
All that said, there is something problematic for me about the being pregnant AS a male idea, and I am with fightingwindmills here. Women are discriminated against because of their biology and it does seem like he wants it both ways: to be viewed as the less discriminated-against gender while carrying a child. Maybe I’m jealous that he can have it both ways. Maybe I don’t think this backwards society is ready for it and that he’ll be viewed as a circus freak and will only damage his child…even though were he my friend, I’d support him 100%.
I hope I’ve not overly-offended anyone here–I too am being challenged by the ideas here and and working out some of my philosophies on the spot. Thanks, Sara No H, especially, for bearing with us.
Women are discriminated against because of their biology and it does seem like he wants it both ways: to be viewed as the less discriminated-against gender while carrying a child. Maybe I’m jealous that he can have it both ways.
Yes! That’s exactly it. I am jealous of him. And also surprised that he and Nancy so confidently report that they are expecting a girl. A girl, you know like, not a boy. Because an ultrasound technician saw some genitalia and declared the child a girl. And yet Nancy and Thomas don’t seem to object to their child being classified in that way. They’re not having a “we’ll wait and see what the child wants to be identified as once the child reaches the age of reason.” They’re having a girl. Please help me understand that.
They’re not having a “we’ll wait and see what the child wants to be identified as once the child reaches the age of reason.” They’re having a girl. Please help me understand that.
Aside from the demand to be educated about the topic, that’s actually a rather reasonable and simple question. Basically put: we know we’re in the minority. We know most people expect us to understand that they, and the rest of the world, primarily identify according to what’s between their legs. We meet those expectations where possible because it lessens the sting of suspicion against us. Can you imagine what would happen if Thomas and his wife announced that “We’re having a female-bodied child but we’ll wait to see what gender identity zie develops before assigning a pronoun?” It’d just heap more scorn upon them and believe me, people would be calling for the child to be taken away from them, because too many people still think that it’s not “healthy” to allow a child that kind of identity choice. They’ll accuse the parents of having an agenda, of using their child as a political statement, or even simply of trying to fuck the kid up as much as possible.
It’s probably nothing more and nothing less than kotowing to cultural norms in an attempt to prove that they’re a “normal” family – it’s a way to protect themselves and their little one from further discrimination and challenge.
And to everyone who’s been thanking me for participating – thank you for allowing me to speak. I’m an educator by choice, but it’s always nice to find a space where my words are at least being heard and weighed, and not dismissed out of hand.
Thank you – all of you – for this discussion. And kudos once again to bluemilk for providing a safe, respectful place for this discussion. I’ve been thinking about this story for days. I — a straight, female, feminist, mother — felt some of the same emotions you have all expressed. Shock. Jealousy. And now acceptance. Good for Thomas. Good for his wife. Good for their family. I hope they are surrounded by a supportive community. And I would love to talk feminist motherhood issues with Thomas someday.
Hmm I have a new appreciation for what Thomas Beatie might be going through. I have to admit that I really didn’t expect his situation to be quite so threatening for people, or rather feminist people. Though having noted that I gotta say kudos to feminist people, you all are able to discuss this emotive topic without losing it and becoming abusive. Phew.
I’m going to address a couple of points raised here:
* this man has rejected his womanhood and then wants to retain the power of gestation (something which is seen by some as sacred to women) and that seems insulting.
Do you think Beatie conspired to have it all, or do you think he is just trying to make the best of his individual circumstances?
Where exactly does the problem of transgender lie for you?
We don’t know much about Beatie’s experience but say he was born with some kind of physiological difference to your average female – chromosomal or hormonal or whatever – and because of that he felt like he was male and not female. Surely, we don’t have a problem with him changing his gender under these circumstances?
Do we have a problem with him changing his gender but keeping his original genitals? Why? Must he have less reproductive options than us for it to be ok for him to change his gender? Changing a vagina into a penis is, I think, more difficult than the reverse. Doing so may have lost Beatie not only his reproductive capacity but also his sexual function. He chose not to do that, I can understand that decision.
I’m pretty sure Beatie will be finding being pregnant confronting – he’s said as much since, the hostility he has faced from the medical fraternity for one, coming out as transgender to his wife’s family as two, and the personal conflict of gender experiences, as also described by Sara, as three. If he is going ahead with this path in spite of the obstacles he faces he and his wife must really, really want a baby. And basically if they wanted a baby as much as my partner and I did, but lacked some of the alternative options my partner and I would have had.. then Thomas and Nancy didn’t have a lot of choice.
Maybe this same thinking could be applied to women who want to have children and a career. You’re not allowed to have it all, but why not? Do we think there is a finite sum of opportunities and if someone gets an additional one then that is one less for us?
* women face significant discrimination and this man is seen by some to be availing himself of the advantages of female reproduction while possibly avoiding the disadvantages of sexism by generally living as a man
Let’s not forget this.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/gay-students-slaying-sparks-outcry/2008/04/01/1206850869486.html
Gender transgression of any kind carries with it enormous risks. No-one would do this for the sheer thrill of trying to offend the straighties. Beatie’s transgender is not about trying to exploit some loophole in The System. Whatever discrimination he is avoiding from not living as a woman, he is receiving in bucketloads for living as a transgender man.
Women face significant discrimination and so do transgender people. We have common ground here. We are not each other’s enemies. It is about him trying to live as he identifies and making choices for himself about his own body. This is a definition very close to feminism.
* men are taking over everything, even motherhood
Beatie has a vagina. He loves a woman and is in an intimate relationship with her, has been for quite a while. He is partaking in a part of reproduction (for he and his wife, because she can’t), which can be both difficult and scary (as well as amazing). Somehow I doubt he is at the front of the line of men oppressing women.
* Beatie’s transgender may damage his child.
Probably not. Into all children’s lives a little fucked-up-ness must fall – even yours and mine. LesbianDad has a post on some films with other transgender parents – and looks like the kids are all doing pretty well. Most of the difficulties this child will face will be because of bigotry aimed at her parents. But if no-one who faced bigotry was allowed to have children, well who would be left? A bunch of white picket fences.
http://lesbiandad.net/2008/03/14/transparent-screening/
Let’s also remember that Beatie is going to be raising his daughter in a heterosexual-style marriage – that’s gotta give them a little bit of white picket fence credibility.
Theresa, what I want to do more than anything is talk practicalities! How they made it happen, what they plan to do next, how they really plan to raise this girl… I’m fascinated, but I’m sure that’s the last thing they want complete stranger to quiz them on. 🙂
this has been an interesting debate… I have to say that for me the only disturbing thing about it is the huge amount of publicity it comes with. I’d hate to be in the spotlight in these circumstances, if it was me, I’d just like to get on with it privately – maybe thomas beatie is ok with this.
I’m glad to see that autonomy and personal choice is also a part of other women’s feminism.. its really important to me that one choice is not all choices… that my daughter can dress in seven shades of pink with heart shapes and a liberal sprinkling of glitter – and still include dinosaurs,miniature pies, castles, fishtank ornaments, diggers and firetrucks in her endless imaginative play, still plan to grow up and build houses with daddy (he’s an architect), still jump on the furniture and wrestle with her brother and not to feel that her behaviour has to be proscribed because she chooses to dress in a way people perceive as ‘girly’.
FYI: Beatie and his partner will appear on Oprah today (in the afternoon of April 3 for USAers). Perhaps the interview will also be available on Utube at some point. I’m quite curious to see what slant Oprah’s questions might take…
Thanks westwardbound, I hope it gets YouTubed. If you watch it feel free to leave a brief synopsis here of your impressions of the interview. I’d be very curious.
A slideshow of really nice photos is on Oprah’s webpage with a lot more background on their story. Check it out here.
Wouldn’t it be nice if relationships, marriage, family, childbirth, parenthood were about love and joy and not about power? And wouldn’t it be nice if we could all choose our careers, clothing, hobbies and friends based on what we liked instead of what someone else wanted us to do? Define yourself and love your friends. There is too much fear, anger and prejudice in the world.
[…] interview answers some of the questions we all raised about Beatie and his pregnancy, and his wife and his life. And he comes across as terribly sweet […]
[…] This is what Blue Milk had to say about it. […]
I am taking a women’s studies class in school, and the “social construct of motherhood” is on our current exam for my final. I find it hard to see a “man” carrying a child, yet what bothers me is like last week as they showed on THE SOUP on E!, he/she states “I don’t want anybody to know about this, hopefully my neighbors are not home” yet, the couple themselves are seeking world wide exploitation and also seeking acceptance from society as a whole when they publish their story in People magazine and go on TV?
…humm
[…] Thomas Beatie, the pregnant man who had everyone chattering about his challenge to their notions of gender fixedness, has given birth to a healthy daughter. […]
[…] before I started blogging, when news of Beatie’s pregnancy broke bluemilk posted ‘When “mother” is just a biological social construct‘ and discussed the gender transgressions that are going on. […]
I know this is an old post, but after reading comment after comment patting one another on the back for this being a “safe space” and everyone being so great, I have to say … I didn’t experience this as safe AT ALL. Actually, I feel kind of nauseous right now.
You were talking about actual human beings, for gods’ sake! Human beings LIKE ME!
You know, if Thomas Beatie’s anything like me, he probably would’ve chosen to have testes and sperm and to reproduce that way. But Thomas didn’t get to choose that–he was born with a uterus and ovaries. I can’t get over the unmitigated gall of a bunch of cisgender people talking about how LUCKY Thomas was to have to make do with the realities of his body. And to talk like they should get any say at all about what trans people do with our own goddamned bodies.
Ugh. UGH. So, so gross.
Just some trans guy – my deepest apologies. Looking back at this I feel ashamed.
I have done a lot more reading since this post was made and though I am still at the bottom of the learning curve I would definitely not write this post nor moderate the comments in the same way today that I did then. Re-reading it I see that I set the dynamic up which transpired in the comments by objectifying transgender parents so much in my post. I was insensitive and offensive to transgender people, and I wish I had known better at the time.
I will keep the whole thing up on the site, if for no other reason than to record the learning experience but I have added a warning at the beginning. Thanks for taking the time and energy to leave feedback, especially after we had been so hurtful.
blue milk,
Thanks for responding. I didn’t expect that, mostly as this post’s an older one, but I really appreciate it. I have read–and have enjoyed!–many of the other posts here, by the way. But this one left me with such a visceral reaction and because it directly addresses a demographic to which I belong, I decided to post on this particular entry.